In the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), "outer darkness" has two separate meanings.. (Conference Reports, October 1958, p. 21. . (Doctrines of Salvation 2:220-221). Additional doctrinal truth concerning the great gulf can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 138:1837). . In this realm, as the name implies, there will be no light, and consequently no heat. How many people. In a general conference talk, Joseph Fielding Smith further explained that. The righteousness of some (Abraham or Lazarus) cannot erase the consequences of anothers sins (the rich man). The first three are referred to as the three degrees of glory, often compared to the sun, the moon, and the stars ( D&C 76:70, 78, 98 ). Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. Severe punishment for eternity, reserved for Satan and his demons as well as the sons of perdition, those humans who once embraced Mormonism and left to fight against the faith, even though they knew Mormonism was true. While Christianity affirms that many people who were created by God will perish in hell, Mormonism also espouses this . Is Jesus the Only Redeemer? Thank you! 1. Sorry ladies, you cant actually apostatize from the church, I guess (Someone tell Kate Kelly her excommunication is not valid!). The "authority" to marry a man to one wife is not the same as the "authority" to marry a man to more than one wife. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God-banished entirely from his presence. Ray L. Huntington and Terry B. Serve Satan. Latter-day Saints understand hell to be a literal place and/or stateeither the temporary hell in the spirit world where the unjust suffer in a state of torment until they are resurrected to a telestial glory (D&C 76:8185, 98112), or the permanent hell where the wicked (the sons of perdition) continue to suffer eternally after the resurrection (D&C 76:37, 4548). . Banishment into outer darkness. But unofficial prophets speaking at BYU or in their own books say no, except Brigham in the Journal of Discourses which is unofficial. 2:11). Thus ensued the War in Heaven, which resulted in Satan and his followers being cast out of heaven and denied the opportunity of receiving a physical body. Those mortals who did join the LDS Church in this lifetime must fit the following criteria to be classified as a son of perdition, with a destiny to outer darkness. And as such I would qualify. Thank you! These pains are similar to the state of suffering experienced by the ungodly who after mortality are assigned to hell. The New Testament testifies that there is an actual place identified as hell into which people can be cast, as in the case of the wicked, and from which they can lift up their eyes, as in the case of the rich man, and from which they can be delivered, as in the case of King David. 12:22; Morm. The Book of Mormon speaks of only two groups who inhabit the postmortal spirit world: the righteous, who exist in a state of happiness called paradise; and the wicked, who are consigned to outer darknessthe wicked being those who have been captivated by the devil and who will be resurrected to an endless hell. Grant Building But as with anything, that doesnt stop prophets from talking about it like they knew. They believe that they are mortal men capable of mistakes just like the rest of us. The conclusion: You (former Mormon), despite being baptized into this church, are not a son of perdition! 15:2830). This is the final destination of Satan himself. The Book of Mormon provides another testament of the reality of a designated place called hell, where the wicked are consigned. You are taking quotes that are not Mormon Doctrine. So why dont we get outer darkness too? Jesus declared that this exalted city would be brought down to hell (Matt. However, sons of perdition cannot achieve forgiveness and will be completely cast outside of the light of God. J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881. 2:8-10) Jesus' atonement provided immortality for all people. He stated that converts made by the Pharisees became twofold more the child of hell than their teachers (Matt. The first example would be spirits from the preexistence who sided with Lucifer rather than Jesus at the Council in Heavenwhere it was decided who would become the Savior of the World. 14:18.) While John could be referring to the sons of perdition in this passage, the specific sins he identified are characteristic of those who will suffer in hell but, after experiencing their part in the lake of fire, will be released from their torment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:10312). Everyone is already going to the terrestrial kingdom by default. And thats why men alone get, I mean need the priesthood. They place themselves beyond the power of repentance and beyond the mercies of God. It clarifies how using an obscure quote does not define LDS doctrines or dogmas. King Benjamin and Alma also use the word as to preface their reference to a lake of fire and brimstone (see Mosiah 3:27; Alma 12:17). Those mortals who never join the LDS Church (through baptism) cannot become sons of perdition. 5:22), and the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone of which the apostle John wrote (Rev. ; Mormon Temple Worship. Nephis words can thus be applied to Jesus parable: the reason the rich man could not cross the great gulf to Abrahams bosom, or the reason the wicked could not join the Saints of God at the tree of life, is because the justice of God does not permit it. outer darkness. We probably do not want to know how horrible it is just like in this life, some things that are so horrible that happen (especially to children) wed rather not know about it, if possible. Even if I did, I still am not eligible for outer darkness. 8:13). By EntropyJustKillUsNow, March 29, 2017 in Social Hall. Johns announcement of death and hell releasing their dead for judgment is augmented by the Book of Mormon prophet Jacob, who taught the same doctrine but provided significantly more detail. (Matt. Those who followed Lucifer in his rebellion in the premortal life and those who in mortality sin against the Holy Ghost are sons of perdition. That Satan rebelled against Christ and God the Father and was cast out with all of Satans followers and will not receive a body. This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition ( Doctrines of Salvation 2:220 ). Mormons believe that there Prophets are fallible and in no way perfect. Also, the whole thing about Daughters of Perdition. And their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever (Mosiah 3:2427; emphasis added). Also, you can read this too. T F It is practically impossible for those who were human to ever be sent to Outer Darkness. Mormons believe that a majority of people on this Earth will go to one of these three heavens. This objection is inconsistent since Mormonism teaches that Lucifer's demon forces, which are clearly destined for "outer darkness," make up one-third of God's "children" (Bruce R. McConkie,Mormon Doctrine, p. 195). (Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor), Collected Discourses: Delivered by Wilford Woodruff, his two counselors, the twelve apostles, and others, 18681898, 5 vols., (Woodland Hills, Utah: B.H.S. He cried: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death. This desperate cry for forgiveness through Christ brought deliverance from the pains of hell Alma had experienced because of his sins (Alma 36:1620). Usually, when one is going to hell, the unspoken caveat is unless they repent. The third use occurs in the parable of the talents: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30). For those born in this life, the person must be a former member who knew Mormonism was true but still rebelled and went against the truth while still knowing it was true. Even the regular Wikipedia seems confused: Sons of Perdition are: The pre-mortal spirit followers of Satan. At the same time, prophets and apostles have taught that you can be sent to outer darkness for simply disbelieving or for apostasy or for being a part of a religion that doesn't have apostles. In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), a son of perdition is a person who will not take part in the glory of God in the afterlife. Possibly but there is no citation there either. The prophet Alma described the disposition of those in outer darkness: And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evilfor behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their houseand these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil (Alma 40:13; cf. Consistently, hell is associated with fire. In addition, Alma defined the second death as dying as to things pertaining unto righteousness. These individuals are chained down to an everlasting destruction and are subject to the will of Satan. 18:8), hell fire (Matt. 22:13-14, D-R.). Yet I an certainly exempt from outer darkness, no questions asked. Even Nazi dictator Adolph Hitler will get nothing less than the telestial kingdom since he was never baptized/confirmed into the church; work was done in proxy for him in the London, England temple several decades ago. In the parable of the wedding of the kings son, the king discovered that a guest was not properly attired in the required wedding garment, i.e., righteousness. Think along the lines of a religious leader serving God but the opposite. The word hell is mentioned twenty-three times in the New Testament: fifteen times in the Gospels, twice in the book of Acts, once each in James and 2 Peter, and four times in the book of Revelation. . 18:8)? 20:14). According to tenth President Joseph Fielding Smith. Hence, the very worse lot in their lives will be the telestial kingdom. As with anything in Mormon doctrine, theres a lot of confusion, contradictory information and just all around ignoring a topic that should be as simple as asking a question and getting an answer. In Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus contrasted the afterlife state of the lowly Lazarus with that of the self-absorbed rich man. For many years, those who have forfeited their membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may have been told by other Mormons that they were Sons of Perdition destined for Outer Darkness. Whats interesting is that there are many former Mormons who still believe Jesus Christ was the Son of God and have a testimony of the Spirit of the Lord. However, their faith no longer is in the Jesus of Mormonism but the Jesus of the Bible. . 5. Over the 30 years in Christian ministry, I have met many former Mormons who once believed in Mormonism, but none has ever confessed that they still believe Mormonism to be true. has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 358). So a heads up, this does not include you or any one who has ever been or will be born on Earth. Continuous suffering, however, is reserved only for sons of perditionthose who are still unclean after the final judgment. Thus the Book of Mormon does seem to contain a reference to the degrees of glory and outer darkness. That night not one boy was interested in going to hell! Which means that really, no one knows anything about this. John did not define the second death other than to make it synonymous with the lake of fire and brimstone that awaits the wicked. So I found one, by Joseph F. Smith, Thus we see that the first death which came into the world is also the last death which shall be pronounced upon the sons of perdition. Ball (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2001), 7789. (see Rom. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88:32, 35). 22:13) if it is also a place of perpetual fire (Matt. Brigham Young University The second death is spiritual and is separation from God. That it is the most severe punishment that can be meted out to man is apparent. 9:1012, 1516). Doctrine and Covenants / Pearl of Great Price, Mormon Objections to Christian Evangelism, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church, Why Practically NobodyIncluding You, Former MormonWill Ever End up In Outer Darkness, Divine Love in the Fathers Plan (Dallin H. Oaks, April 2022). The question is, what exactly does full knowledge entail? You not only need to have been a Mormon, but you have to have full knowledge that this is the restored church of God and still fought against it. It also teaches that the Atonement ransoms humankind from physical death through the resurrection and from spiritual death, or hell, through repentance. Hell is a state of suffering, both temporary and permanent. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. These spirits never received a mortal body necessary to progress to a kingdom of glory. Youll never regret it. https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22. Also God says no one knows in scripture, so stop asking; but He also said in scripture that He upbraideth not those who have questions and if you ask it shall be opened unto you. Smith taught: The sons of perdition are those who have had a knowledge of the truth, have known that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, have had the testimony of the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Ghost, and these things have all been revealed so that they know they are true; and then they turn against them and fight them knowingly. It is doubtful if even Judas, who betrayed Jesus, was sufficiently enlightened to become a son of perdition (Gospel Doctrine,p. 545). (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. It is, therefore, important to examine carefully the context of each reference. 3. He also said,I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. In this context, outer darkness is the spirit prison, or that part of the spirit world that the wicked inhabit prior to their resurrection. In the D&C, the definition of those who go to Outer Darkness is stated as: the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows; Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again; Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation (D&C 76:45-48). Banishment from the power of God. We believe that after the final judgment there are four places to which a person may be sent. 2:4). Pingback: The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, A Son of Perdition is: Italics in original). The phrases depths of hell, awful hell, sleep of hell, pains of hell, chains of hell, everlasting hell, and endless hell are all unique to the Book of Mormon. Delving into the interesting bits about any religion to stem from Joseph Smith Jr. Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor). Meanwhile, I have known many who could be considered fighters against the church, including those who became involved in what could be considered anti-Mormon activities. It is impossible for those who never joined Mormonism to become sons of perdition. But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord. Severe punishment for eternity, reserved for Satan and his demons as well as the sons of perdition, those humans who once embraced Mormonism and left to fight against the faith, even though they knew Mormonism was true. Smith told a general conference audience: I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. While some apparently have taught that these spirits could be restored to a kingdom of glory, 12th President Spencer W. Kimball said this wasnt true: In the days of the restoration there apparently were those who taught that the devil and his angels and the sons of perdition should sometime be restored. Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition. lift[ed] up his eyes and saw Abraham and Lazarus across an impassable gulf (Luke 16:23). Nephis commentary to his brothers concerning his fathers dream of the tree of life adds interesting insight into the possible meaning of the great gulf Jesus referred to: And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. Latter Day Saint beliefs on hell are connected with the movement's doctrines of the plan of salvation, the degrees of glory and the telestial kingdom. The extent of this punishment none will ever know except those who partake of it. The first death is physical death, and everyone but the devil and his angels will overcome physical death through Resurrection. . If this is the case, the worst fate any former Latter-day Saint can anticipate is the telestial kingdom. 12:22). So we can clearly state no women are Sons of Perdition in outer darkness. Satan and his followers are beings of spirit who were denied bodies and cast out of heaven during pre-mortal existence (see Plan of Salvation ). Source. Because reasons. The Book of Mormon also makes reference to everlasting fire (2 Ne. One of the messages of the Book of Mormon is that people sometimes lose the desire to repent. The first three are referred to as the three degrees of glory, often compared to the sun, the moon, and the stars (D&C 76:70 . The wicked are cast into outer darkness until the time of their resurrection, Alma 40:13-14. The Lord said no man knoweth So, theres probably a good reason that there is some debate and confusion on it. D&C 76 does say telestial people are the ones thrust down to hell and not redeemed until the last resurrection. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire [i.e., overcome or defeated by Christs Atonement]. What do Mormons believe happened in the pre-existence? Learn how your comment data is processed. I said: I dont know and he said, How can I find outI just called Spencer Kimball and he told me he didnt know either. Jesus disciples were told not to fear those who could kill the body but to fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Matt. 3:12), the tares are gathered and burned in the fire (Matt. Plagiarism and The Globe a comparative analysis, The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism), https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf, https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22, LDS Church and Same Sex Marriage Timeline, The Pump LDS film and the original source, Ethan Smith, Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding connections. When I was Mormon, I was taught that in order to be sent to Outer Darkness (I'm a woman, that will be relevant in a second) you had to have an UNMISTAKABLE KnOwLeDgE of Christ, and then turn your back on God and deny him. 9:16), unquenchable fire (Mosiah 2:38), and hell fire (3 Ne. kingdoms of glory. We found these portrayals to be highly inaccurate. No Mormon since the 1890 change has had the authority to marry any man to more than one woman. In this state of torment Alma remembered his fathers teachings about Jesus Christ and his redemptive mission. Cannot be saved at the last day; except W.W. Phelps who was classified as such by Joseph and then redeemed, and we should only trust prophets on the matter because they dont conflict, unless they do. Clearly you dont know what is and is not doctrine, and are trying to throw shade. To qualify, a person would not only have to leave the Mormon church but also vehemently speak against it. This isnt something like going out and breaking their rule of no drinking. The sinner must deal with the self-created gulf on his own, with the help of the Savior and his Atonement. Add an RSC shortcut to this device's Homescreen, In the menu, scroll past any icons and tap. The filthy would be more miserable to dwell with God than to dwell in hell, Morm. For example, Alma the Younger was delivered from the intensity of his hellish pain when he cried to the Lord for mercy. He wrote: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Rev. Divine Love in the Fathers Plan (Dallin H. Oaks, April 2022). In Mormonism, it depends. Italics in original). Provo, UT 84602 14:1519). Ellipsis mine). In the parable of the talents, the returning lord instructed that the wicked and slothful servant who hid his talent in the earth be cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. Thus, the second death is taught in conjunction with the first death, which came as a consequence of the Fall of Adam and Eve, and also with the Atonement of Jesus Christ, which redeems all of humankind from the first death through resurrection and the second death through repentance.
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