Was there any similarity from that potion to what was drunk at Eleusis? And I want to say to those who are still assembled here that I'm terribly sorry that we can't get to all your questions. The idea of the truth shall set you free, right, [SPEAKING GREEK], in 8:32. What does that have to do with Christianity? Like the wedding at Cana, which my synopsis of that event is a drunkard getting a bunch of drunk people even more drunk. John H Elliott - Empires Of The Atlantic World.pdf So here's a question for you. Like in Israel. You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. Now, I don't put too much weight into that. OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. That's the big question. And I-- in my profession, we call this circumstantial, and I get it. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. So can you reflect on the-- standing on the threshold of pharmaceutical companies taking control of this, how is that to be commended when the very people who have kept this alive would be pushed to the side in that move? 8th century BC from the Tel Arad shrine. And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. 1,672. I'm going to stop asking my questions, although I have a million more, as you well know, and instead try to ventriloquist the questions that are coming through at quite a clip through the Q&A. I mean, the honest answer is not much. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biolo. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. So when Hippolytus is calling out the Marcosians, and specifically women, consecrating this alternative Eucharist in their alternative proto-mass, he uses the Greek word-- and we've talked about this before-- but he uses the Greek word [SPEAKING GREEK] seven times in a row, by the way, without specifying which drugs he's referring to. Its proponents maintain that the affable, plump old fellow associated with Christmas derives from the character of Arctic medical practitioners. What about Jesus as a Jew? CHARLES STANG: So it may be worth mentioning, for those who are attending who haven't read the book, that you asked, who I can't remember her name, the woman who is in charge of the Eleusis site, whether some of the ritual vessels could be tested, only to discover-- tested for the remains of whatever they held, only to learn that those vessels had been cleaned and that no more vessels were going to be unearthed. To be a Catholic is to believe that you are literally consuming the blood of Christ to become Christ. Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. But it was just a process of putting these pieces together that I eventually found this data from the site Mas Castellar des Pontos in Spain. So let's talk about the future of religion, and specifically the future of Roman Catholicism. . There he is. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. [texts-excerpt] penalty for cutting mangroves in floridaFREE EstimateFREE Estimate #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? In 1950, Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote " The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity " which describes the continuity from the Pagan, pre-Christian world to what would become early Christianity in the decades and centuries before Jesus Religion & Mystical Experiences, Wine Throughout his five books he talks about wine being mixed with all kinds of stuff, like frankincense and myrrh, relatively innocuous stuff, but also less innocuous things like henbane and mandrake, these solanaceous plants which he specifically says is fatal. Like in a retreat pilgrimage type center, or maybe within palliative care. It's only in John that Jesus is described as being born in the lap of the Father, the [SPEAKING GREEK] in 1:18, very similar to the way that Dionysus sprung miraculously from the thigh of Zeus, and on and on and on-- which I'm not going to bore you and the audience. Something else I include at the end of my book is that I don't think that whatever this was, this big if about a psychedelic Eucharist, I don't think this was a majority of the paleo-Christians. And she talks about the visions that transformed the way she thinks about herself. In my previous posts on the continuity hypothesis . And the truth is that this is a project that goes well beyond ancient history, because Brian is convinced that what he has uncovered has profound implications for the future of religion, and specifically, the future of his own religion, Roman Catholicism. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. CHARLES STANG: Right. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. We call it ego dissolution, things of that nature. And the big question for me was what was that something else? Certainly these early churchmen used whatever they could against the forms of Christian practice they disapproved of, especially those they categorized as Gnostic. And what you're referring to is-- and how I begin the book is this beautiful Greek phrase, [SPEAKING GREEK]. All he says is that these women and Marcus are adding drugs seven times in a row into whatever potion this is they're mixing up. Now, let's get started, Brian. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. He draws on the theory of "pagan continuity," which holds that early Christianity adopted . So what evidence can you provide for that claim? When you start testing, you find things. "Pagan" and "Christian" Marriage: The State of the Question And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. A combination of psychoactive plants, including opium, cannabis, and nightshade, along with the remains of reptiles and amphibians all steeped in wine, like a real witch's brew, uncovered in this house outside of Pompeii. They're mixing potions. Copyright 2023 President and Fellows of Harvard College. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I want to thank you for your time. So somewhere between 1% and 49%. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. But I'm pressing you because that's my job. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. And I hear-- I sense that narrative in your book. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. So the big question is, what kind of drug was this, if it was a drug? I mean, in the absence of the actual data, that's my biggest question. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm asked this question, I would say, in pretty much every interview I've done since late September. But maybe you could just say something about this community in Catalonia. So your presentation of early Christianity inclines heavily toward the Greek world. He was wronged by individuals, allegedly. So Brian, welcome. OK-- maybe one of those ancient beers. So imagine how many artifacts are just sitting in museums right now, waiting to be tested. And what it has to do with Eleusis or the Greek presence in general, I mean, again, just to say it briefly, is that this was a farmhouse of sorts that was inland, this sanctuary site. And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. How does, in other words, how does religion sit with science? And shouldn't we all be asking that question? I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. If the Dionysian one is psychedelic, does it really make its way into some kind of psychedelic Christianity? And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? There were formula. Not much. And the big question is, what is this thing doing there in the middle of nowhere? There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . I really tried. "The Tim Ferriss Show" 646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? And when we know so much about ancient wine and how very different it was from the wine of today, I mean, what can we say about the Eucharist if we're only looking at the texts? So I went fully down the rabbit hole. There's a good number of questions that are very curious why you are insisting on remaining a psychedelic virgin. So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. And that's all I present it as, is wonderfully attractive and maybe even sexy circumstantial evidence for the potential use of a psychedelic sacrament amongst the earliest Christians. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? pagan continuity hypothesis - diamondamotel.com I want to thank you for your candor. Leonardo Torres Pagan, PhD - Subject Matter Expert & Editor - LinkedIn Now, Mithras is another one of these mystery religions. And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. A rebirth into a new conception of the self, the self's relationship to things that are hard to define, like God. let's take up your invitation and move from Dionysus to early Christianity. There aren't any churches or basilicas, right, in the first three centuries, in this era we're calling paleo-Christianity. You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. Wonderful, well, thank you. It's a big question for me. And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. It's something that goes from Homer all the way until the fall of the Roman Empire, over the course of well more than 1,000 years. And I describe that as somehow finding that key to immortality. Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. But it was not far from a well-known colony in [INAUDIBLE] that was founded by Phocians. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. CHARLES STANG: OK, that is the big question. So the Eastern Aegean. BRIAN MURARESKU: Now we're cooking with grease, Dr. Stang. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. BRIAN MURARESKU: It just happens to show up. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. Now we're getting somewhere. So Plato, Pindar, Sophocles, all the way into Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, it's an important thing. So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. He co-writes that with Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann, who famously-- there it is, the three authors. So that's from Burkert, a very sober scholar and the dean of all scholarship on Greek religion. That's, just absurd. He's the god of wine. And when you speak in that way, what I hear you saying is there is something going on. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. You become one with Christ by drinking that. What does it mean to die before dying? In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. It still leaves an even bigger if, Dr. Stang, is which one is psychedelic? And I've listened to the volunteers who've gone through these experiences. "The Jews" are not after Ye. It pushes back the archaeology on some of this material a full 12,000 years. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. Here's what we don't. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries This is all secret. Now, Carl Ruck from Boston University, much closer to home, however, took that invitation and tried to pursue this hypothesis. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? Thank you, sir. I wish that an ancient pharmacy had been preserved by Mount Vesuvius somewhere near Alexandria or even in upper Egypt or in Antioch or parts of Turkey. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. So. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. I'm not sure where it falls. But I do want to push back a little bit on the elevation of this particular real estate in southern Italy. Pagan polemicists reversed the Biblical story of the Israelites' liberation from Egyptian bondage, portraying a negative image of Israelite origins and picturing them as misanthropes and atheists. CHARLES STANG: Thank you, Brian. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More | Tim Ferriss Show #646 And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. He comes to this research with a full suite of scholarly skills, including a deep knowledge of Greek and Latin as well as facility in a number of European languages, which became crucial for uncovering some rather obscure research in Catalan, and also for sweet-talking the gatekeepers of archives and archaeological sites. Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? Then there's what were the earliest Christians doing with the Eucharist. But we do know that something was happening. I might forward the proposition that I don't think the early church fathers were the best botanists. What does God mean? It draws attention to this material. Tim Ferriss Show #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More. The (Mistaken) Conspiracy Theory: In the Late Middle Ages, religious elites created a new, and mistaken, intellectual framework out of Christian heresy and theology concerning demons. Interesting. Now I want to get to the questions, but one last question before we move to the discussion portion. And it seems to me that if any of this is right, that whatever was happening in ancient Greece was a transformative experience for which a lot of thought and preparation went into. Jerry Brown wrote a good review that should be read to put the book in its proper place. And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. For those who didn't have the time or the money or the temerity to travel all the way to Eleusis from Spain, here's your off-site campus, right? That's only after Constantine. BRIAN MURARESKU: OK. I expect we will find it. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving And he found some beer and wine-- that was a bit surprising. We see lots of descriptions of this in the mystical literature with which you're very familiar. I mean, this really goes to my deep skepticism. CHARLES STANG: So that actually helps answer a question that's in the Q&A that was posed to me, which is why did I say I fully expect that we will find evidence for this? Not because it was brand new data. It's some kind of wine-based concoction, some kind of something that is throwing these people into ecstasy. So I'm trying to build the case-- and for some reason in my research, it kept coming back to Italy and Rome, which is why I focus on Hippolytus. PDF Thesis-The Religion of Constantine I - University Of Ottawa And I think that's an important distinction to make. And I think we're getting there. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. It tested positive for the microscopic remains of beer and also ergot, exactly the hypothesis that had been put forward in 1978 by the disgraced professor across town from you, Carl Ruck, who's now 85 years old, by the way. He has talked about the potential evidence for psychedelics in a Mithras liturgy. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. I was not going to put a book out there that was sensationalist. When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. Others would argue that they are perfectly legal sacraments, at least in the Native American church with the use of peyote, or in the UDV or Santo Daime, I mean, ayahuasca does work in some syncretic Christian form, right? Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. He decides to get people even more drunk. Phil's Picks | Phoenix Books Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More (#646) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss 3 Annual "Best of" Apple Podcasts 900+ Million episodes downloaded And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. And I asked her openly if we could test some of the many, many containers that they have, some on display, and many more in repository there. Psychedelics Weekly - Prince Harry and Psychedelics, Proposed And maybe in these near-death experiences we begin to actually experience that at a visceral level. You're not confident that the pope is suddenly going to issue an encyclical. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. And considering the common background of modern religions (the Pagan Continuity hypothesis), any religious group who thinks they are chosen or correct are promoting a simplistic and ignorant view of our past. So how to put this? I mean, that's obviously the big question, and what that means for the future of medicine and religion and society at large. Show Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation podcast, Ep Plants of the Gods: S4E2. There is evidence that has been either overlooked or perhaps intentionally suppressed. The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. So perhaps there's even more evidence. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. Now, I think you answered that last part. Which, again, what I see are small groups of people getting together to commune with the dead. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. And this is at a time when we're still hunting and gathering. These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? We have plays like the Bacchi from Euripides, where we can piece together some of this. And then at some point they go inland. And I think it's very important to be very honest with the reader and the audience about what we know and what we don't. 44:48 Psychedelics and ancient cave art . I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. His aim when he set out on this journey 12 years ago was to assess the validity of a rather old, but largely discredited hypothesis, namely, that some of the religions of the ancient Mediterranean, perhaps including Christianity, used a psychedelic sacrament to induce mystical experiences at the border of life and death, and that these psychedelic rituals were just the tip of the iceberg, signs of an even more ancient and pervasive religious practice going back many thousands of years. Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog If you die before you die, you won't die when you die. And there were gaps as well. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. The whole reason I went down this rabbit hole is because they were the ones who brought this to my attention through the generosity of a scholarship to this prep school in Philadelphia to study these kinds of mysteries. Because every time I think about ancient wine, I am now immediately thinking about wine that is spiked. And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The - Chartable The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. It's not to say that there isn't evidence from Alexandria or Antioch. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. I think the wine certainly does. And keep in mind that we'll drop down into any one of these points more deeply. A rebirth into what? 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism
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